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I ran my first cycle of 500 MG of test a week for 10 weeks and after that I did trt treatment because I was planning to hop on my second cycle fairly quickly. Blood test results after 6 week clomid therapy from HPTA restart. anybody got a woman pregant here while being on TRT 1+ year? The end result is the hypothalamus "perceives" that there is less circulatory estrogen and responds by increasing GnRH release. Biol Reprod. Answer (1 of 3): From my research, any amount of exogenous testosterone. Post reply Insert quotes He's worked with 1000s of guys setting up their personal training routines, diets and regiments. Compounds do play a role in degrees of shutdown but it's minor excluding a few outliers. Scientific studies showed that all subjects returned to baseline in 45 days using this protocol. I have a specific question that I cant seem to find the answer to so Im hoping you can help. I am not a doctor, but this is just what I have read. . Over 25 years of experience in the bodybuilding industry. You can speed this up (and you should) by taking a combination of HCG, Nolvadex and Clomid. Of course it can, just as Nolvadex is way more specific to breast tissue, some really cool compounds are WAY more specific to the hypothalamus. does hcg shut down hptamasa year of service PB Nitom Blog . but once shutdown itself actually happens, it does not matter if that lasts 2 weeks or 6 months. In the new millennium performance enhancement through supplementation became a science. HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks, https://forums.steroid.com/pct-post-ml#post7456000. In order for your body to produce testosterone naturally again these three signals need to be functioning properly. That could be due to a problem, hypogonadism, or alternatively could be because you're taking exogenous testosterone at an amount that is causing your body's natural production to stop working because it sees the high level and . so Ive finally got my hands on some hCG. Just curious; cause I just saw a video with Jerry Ward and he always reverts back to his pre cycle stats when he was 19 when he comes of all the drugs. Prenatal inhibition of aromatase activity affects luteinizing hormone feedback mechanisms and reproductive behaviors of adult guinea pigs. Also if you feel you aren't ready , keep asking questions and continue researching till you are. Contact IMT today and give your body the program it deserves and give you the best chance at recovering your natural testosterone levels. You're still shutting your system down. 3 Dec 4, 2022 #12 Vanargandar Member. It all begins with a gland located in your head called the hypothalamus when it releases a measured amount of GnRH (also known as LH-releasing hormone). When the body recognizes elevated hormones in the blood, it prevents the pituitary from releasing LH, and without stimulation from LH, the testicles are unable to produce testosterone. Injecting Testosterone and/or HCG suppress LH and FSH even at low doses. #4. In addition, he worked with multiple MMA stars to get them ready for fights. Otherwise those on TRT would not, for example , produce growth hormone. The leydig cells stop producing test, until homeostatis is met, and testosterone has a higher ratio to estrogen than it currently has. (Don't get me started on the unfair advantages women with large breast augmentations have over post-nursing mothersOkay, like I care). Once testosterone has stopped being produced, it no longer sends this negative signal, and GnRH eventually begins to do its job again. Windows 10. Put it this way, I was at my genetic limit before starting my cycle and then going into TRT. - Listen to Evolutionary.org 534 - Science of what happens on cycle to HPTA and when you come off by Evolutionary Radio instantly on your tablet, phone or browser - no downloads needed. (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6), DHEA and Pregnenolone: Base hormones that will enable the production of all required hormones directly or indirectly including but not limited to pregnenolone sulfate, 17-OH P, dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA),androstenedione (OH), testosterone, BT, estradiol, progesterone, 17-OH progesterone, aldosterone, 1,25(OH) vitamin D, 25(OH) vitamin D, parathyroid hormone, osteocalcin, luteinizing hormone, GH, and IGF-1. As little as 1mg 3 times weekly post-cycle for 30 days has been shown to decrease estrogen by 50% and have some benefits in regard to HPTA regeneration due to its mopping up effect. It does not shut down entirely. Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis. Is there any down side of taking hcg monotherapy 500 IU every week? HPTA = Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis. But again, that is a whole other article. Nolvadex, Clomid and HCG in Post Cycle Therapy By Bigfella & PartyBoy - MuscleTalk Moderators Why Bodybuilders Use Clomid Clomid is a generic name for Clomiphene Citrate and is a synthetic oestrogen. when full suppression happens your shit is off , period . the steroids that DO NOT cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA, do NOT oversaturate ANY of . Welcome to ExcelMale.com, the leading and best-moderated mens health forum focused on increasing health, potency and productivity in men. There is a huge misconception that we can take huge amounts of steroids and we do not have to worry about not producing testosterone because we are replacing it with an exogenous source. The result is a dramatic unhealthy reduction, or even shut-down, of the HPTA and girl status for the owner of the saggy-sack problem. Resko JA, Connolly PB, Roselli CE, Abdelgadir SE, Choate JV. 08-22-2018, 01:52 PM #2 The result is a dramatic unhealthy reduction, or even shut-down, of the HPTA and girl status for the owner of the saggy-sack problem. Blood test results after 6 week clomid therapy from HPTA restart. Select Start , and then select Power > Hibernate. have there been any studies, or even anyone got any opinions, on the levels of hpta shut down with regards to dosage of trt. Stay informed and join our social networks! Penile Implant For Young Patient Who Exhausted Usual Treatments. Anastrolzole is a generic name for the drug Arimidex. However, the Androgen-Negative-Feed-Back-Loop still remains the main limiting factor. The second phase will comprise of medications to stimulate endogenous production of testosterone, both phases end when labs dictate they are done. Seriously, good luck on your biking events! Kaplan ME, McGinnis MY. Seemed to be fine. Of course some studies have shown that the correct ratio of 3-OHAT and ATD administered to adult human males results in an average increase in bioavailable testosterone of up to 400% and a direct decrease in estrogens of an average 50%. Depressed? After properly accounting for when the exogenous testosterone cypionate (if that is the ester you have been using) is leaving your system, we then start HCG treatment alongside an AI to keep estrogen down; remember estrogen is suppressive. An HPTA restart will comprise of two phases, HCG and AI use to activate the testicles to be receptive to the LH/FSH pulse when the medications are discontinued. I just started Diesel Test Hardcore to see if that works but no luck so far. HGH supplementation WILL suppress your pituitary. Activation of the somatotropic axis by testosterone in adult males: evidence for the role of aromatization. HCG has been a utilized as a "partial cure" for the shut-down of the hypothalamus-pituitary-testes-axis (HPTA). World Record For Most Spacebar Clicks In 1 Minute, Don't fuck your system up. There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. 1989 Mar;23(1):10-26. Especially since, diet, weight, sleep, stress etc are all at a good point. It has to be a sad state of affairs when a society has reached a point in its ineptitude that government intervention is deemed necessary as a means of controlling individual choice for performance enhancement, or not, from over the counter supplementation. It means that ATD blocks the Androgen-Negative-Feed-Back-Loop and aids in decreasing estrogen production while increasing natural testosterone production. 2 weeks in , will probably do 2 more weeks if not more. Results vary from patient to patient. What's this mean in English? Normal total testosterone production for a healthy male is about 500-600ng/dl (too many are in the 200-350ng/dl range due to environmental estrogens alone), but some AAS users push the levels into the 2000-3000ng/dl plus area. HPTA stands for hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular (or sometimes gonadal) axis. In truth Chrysin totally bombed out in the real-world as it is actually just another phytoestrogen making male users fat and less masculine. It's completely normal to have testicular atrophy during a cycle, you're shutting your system down. I am currently beginning my second cycle and I am a little worried about shutting down my hpta. When a man is HPTA suppressed for any reason they need to take HCG for just this reason. Here is my blood work. Rick Vallejo is an industry veteran. As the better companies employed more real scientists, they became more apt at researching and marketing substances that truly could be said to be "steroid-like" in effect. Very long term TRT (20+ years) - risk of liver cancer? Like all things we really like in life, there is a series of checks and balances that keep things in control and limit the amounts of good stuff we can have (like girlfriends). New Bloodwork - Crashed Estrogen = What now ??? Not all steroids do cause shut down of the feedback mechanism. Dec. 6, 2011 -- The Food and Drug Administration and the Federal Trade Commission issued warning letters today to seven companies that market over-the-counter weight loss products containing . We offer a free consultation at your location to help design your event. Hell, if the only thing you ran was HCG and no juice at all you'd still be throwing a wrench into your HPTA because you'd have so much test your body would say "well fuck it, we don't have to try as hard to make this shit anymore! MRC Neuroendocrine Development and Behaviour Group, Institute of Animal Physiology and Genetics Research, Babraham, Cambridge, England. I'm not sure that length of time matters that much,, other then in regards to "shutdown' vs 'suppression'' . (10), IMTs GH Peptide combination: Increases natural GH subsequently increasing IGF-1. All these hormones have multiple functions which most dont understand, leading to many negative side effects. The second phase will comprise of medications to stimulate endogenous production of testosterone, both phases end when labs dictate they are done. The result would be long term HPTA Supraphysiological Overcompensation and viable naturally occurring testosterone production at a significant and highly effective level. The one size fits all theory does not apply and you must get lab work to see whether your testicles are functioning to the degree in which they will be responsive to the LH/FSH that your pituitary will secrete to stimulate endogenous testosterone. Answer (1 of 3): You should expect a full recovery, providing you are not a long-term, heavy user/abuser. Suppressing prolactin is a good idea to prevent long lasting problems after a cycle has ended. About Business Point; Blog; Contact; Home; Home; Home; Our Services. I have made it as simple as I can, it does not need to be complicated as many make it seem. Not all steroids do cause shut down of the . Everyone is different and you must also take into account how long you have been using a certain steroid and at what dose in order to determine if you need Clomid or not. Brain fog? The largest testosterone increase was in Group . Now, if we use during cycle say 1000iu a week, or some like to use say 500iu 3 x a week, could this actually have a negative In simple terms, adding testosterone signals that you already have enough - so the system slows it down dramatically. Back in my 20s I ran some testosterone cycles with pct (but no hcg) for a total of about 5 years off an on but I havent touched any gear in about 6 years. Wasn't really sure how to title this but I have some questions and some assumptions Im wondering if are valid or not. So HERE is exactly how Testosterone supplementation (AAS) Shuts you down. .hide-if-no-js { The time to use HCG is during the cycle when you shut down. These results demonstrate acute oral DHEA supplementation can elevate free testosterone levels in middle-aged men and prevent it from declining during HIIT. Why? It does that by means of its neuroendocrine role in conjunction with the pituitary gland as well as by its influence on the the autonomic nervous system, which helps regulate body temperature, the cardiovascular system, and food and water intake. Jun 28, 2014. what is the link between heredity and drug addiction? Fellow writer and friend Will Brink set up The Dan Duchaine Memorial Fund in his memory. What's going on everyone . But it gets worse. One main concern with the "AT" structure is its potential conversion to the feminizing estrogens 6-keto-estrone and 6-keto-estradiol (Estradiol's of any kind are as much as 10 times more powerful than estrogen's). Had myself tested and test levels still only at 300 I was going to do another 4 weeks of clomid but wanting to throw in a little gel or test cream which I can get, but don't want to shut down. It is important for the HCG administration to have been completed with 6 or 7 clear days before the onset of PCT in order to avoid inhibition of the Nolvadex and/or Clomid therapy. HCG has been a utilized as a "partial cure" for the shut-down of the hypothalamus-pituitary-testes-axis (HPTA). During this period it is important to make sure your body is filling up with essential base hormones such as DHEA and Pregnenolone as well. When starting phase two, you are going to want to supplement with base hormones, vitamins, optimize dhGH (raising IGF-1), and SERM treatment. Any outside amount will shut you down if taken for an extended time period. And of course, the pharmaceutical industry, sports organizations and government agencies took interest. I believe the most we can say with some degree of authority is HPTA dysfunction Steroids doesnt shrink your penis but depending on your cycle and the drugs you use they will shut you down. Reply. Steroid users typically use the androgens in a cycle of six to 18 weeks, often followed by a break in which they may use unproven therapies such as tamoxifen, clomiphene citrate and/or hCG in an attempt to return their hormones to normal faster. Awards 0. Clinical research was done sampling intra-testicular testosterone [ITT] inside the tests with find needle extraction [ouch!] The human body has the ability to naturally produce amazing amounts of anabolic goodies like testosterone, GH (growth hormone), IGF-1 (Insulin Growth Factor-1) and insulin. And though it does aromatize, it does so at a very slow rate. Any suggestions on a regimen to get back on track would be greatly appreciated. Weak tendons? LH (or HCG as its analog) is principally responsible for activating the P450 side chain cleavage enzyme which converts Cholesterol into Pregnenolone which not only supports adrenals but all 3 metabolic pathways. Estrogen synthesis in fetal sheep brain: effect of maternal treatment with an aromatase inhibitor. Roselli CE, Resko JA, Stormshak F. Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Oregon Health & Science University, Portland, Oregon 97201-3098, USA. Can that be done? All information contained within this site is for informational purposes only. + Also will be getting bloods 4 weeks in- if my estro is in the shitter I'll have HCG on hand to remedy. My concern with the arimidex would be driving my estrogen into the ground and feeling like shit but I would really love to hear what you guys think is the best option for this restart. As such we used 8 healthy males as human guinea pigs to test what the research claims to be factual. A cycle of steroids completely changes the functioning of your natural hormone system. Clomiphen Citrate is the generic name for Clomid which is a fertility drug used to stimulate ovulation in women and increase sperm production in men. Hmmm, look bad, feel bad and not care. Individual variability makes it hard to predict. 4) Combination therapy Clomiphene Citrate and HCG 5000IU. does hcg shut down hpta Home; Cameras; Sports; Accessories; Contact Us I still train just as hard and my diet has gotten even better over the last 4 months. Someone else with a medical background will need to provide a chart, etc. Take precautions and aim to achieve. This would (and has) obviously allow for optimization of human male performance. No action should be taken solely on the contents of this website or our testimonials. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. This hormone is an important contributor in the modulation of the somatotropic axis and can impair our testosterone production if not optimized alongside the other hormones. Watermelon Breeze Tropicana, Nothing is more important than healthy and safety. After all, no one seems appalled by the unfair advantage performance enhancement drugs like Viagra (sildenafil citrate) and Cialis (tadalafil) allows cheaters. hCG dose has nothing to do with TRT dose. Keeping this in mind when starting a cycle and planning a PCT is vital. The pituitary and hypothalamus part of the HPTA still sense no reason to produce gonadotropins and restore normal LH/FSH production. The hyperplasia being the "boosted" look you get on. I would never recommend an AI in place of TRT. (0 members and 1 guests). All HCG does is trick your balls into thinking it's still producing LH, but it's not. does hcg shut down hpta. Post-cycle AAS therapy, in most cases, includes something to decrease estrogen levels and activity, and some other drug to replace LH. DHEA and Pregnenolone are converted via enzymes to testosterone and estrogen, as well as host of other metabolites which are required for other hormones of the nuclear receptor family. New Bloodwork - Crashed Estrogen = What now ??? Steroids that can increase prolactin, mainly 19-nors, such as nandrolone and trenbolone, need to be taken with extra precaution. The phase two HCG restart hopes to bring back normal testosterone levels and sensitize the leydig cells. You are doing 500iu 3x/week, 1500iu/week. You might stop producing natural testosterone altogether. (No joke, really!). The small amount of GnRH then makes its way to the pituitary gland to tell it to kick out two other hormones called LH (Luteinizing Hormone) and FSH (Follicle-Stimulating Hormone). But there isn't a right answer. Anabolic steroid users and those looking to increase endogenous androgen production alike, have used this so-called stack almost like a religious rite not realizing there was an error in its structure. Sundays - Closed, 8642 Garden Grove Blvd. The Question You Really Want To Ask Why Don't "My Boy's" Do That Naturally? HCG sees use in some PCT but that is a misconception because HCG works quickly and restores testicular volume giving the appearance of treatment however in the long run does not properly restart your HPTA. If you experience low Testosterone, this process wont stop your low T symptoms from returning once you resume your natural production levels. 34.245.32.234 Stick with clomid, Nolva and aromasin. To still maintain healthy functioning and have high GH and IGF-1 levels supplementation of a GH releaser such as a peptide combination is most necessary.(11)(12)(13). But the 3rd time he ran HCG on cycle and then did PCT and his pituitary never recovered; his testes were fine. 4 acted as a placebo base-line group receiving 6 capsules daily of cornstarch, and the other 4 got the real deal consisting of a proprietary 50mg blend of both 3-OHAT and ATD. This is an aromatase enzyme inhibitor that decreases conversion of susceptible androgens into estrogens. It is commonly touted that once you start testosterone replacement (TRT) you are stuck with it for the rest of your life. The main limitation for this compound is that it has poor oral bioavailability (the reason for required dosages being above the half gram mark daily), and of course it only aids inhibition of the Estrogen-Negative-Feed-Back-Loop. HCG only "replaces" natural LH. I stopped TRT cold turkey in April (no PCT, no restart) and it only took 4.5 weeks for my natural production to fire back up, Im sure I could have tapered, by that would have prolonged suffering and the end result would be the same. Certain hormones should be responding to treatment, and if they are not responding, adjustments can be made to the protocol. Okay, LH and FSH then take a trip via the vascular system to the testes (testicles, "The Boy's", testes whatever) and make contact with the Leydig cells and Sertoli cells which results in testosterone synthesis and sperm production respectively. Many AAS users know that by decreasing the amount of circulatory estrogen, they are also able to somewhat decrease HPTA down-regulation. So ending HCG administration sometimes only brought on another crash. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. The result is hormone withdrawal symptoms. JIMO - Because you are using exogenous Testosterone your HPT Axis is already suppressed so in essence your negative feed back loop in in full gear. Department of Anatomy, Mount Sinai School of Medicine, CUNY, New York 10029. One group only gets 25mg a week which is less than most men make naturally so that group actually lost muscle and gained body fat. For faster-acting dosage forms like topical creams and suspensions, HPTA treatment should typically be initiated one day after administering . What does hmg add to the mix that hcg can't do alone? The whole idea of supplementing with steroids is to override the mechanism for negative feedback. Before I go on, realize that this is the catalyst for all of the good things you really want to happen if performance optimization is your goalso take the time to read it! One of the hardest ACTUAL facts to find when searching through steroid and bodybuilding forums is how testosterone supplementation actually shuts you down. So the end result is your testes have no reason to produce testosterone or spermand no reason to optimize muscular activities, recovery or have sex. This dose of hCG is low enough that it may not cause full HPTA suppression. This phase should be continued until it is determined by labs that the leydig cells are responsive to the LH hormone. Because sex drive and sexual function are closely tied with Testosterone production, low Testosterone levels can lead to ED and decreased libido. HCG will not work well for a restart, HCG suppresses the HTPA and doesnt do anything to increase LH which is what you need and what clomid does, Im afraid using HCG to restart will be futile. Since HCG mimics LH, the goal is for the bodys LH to take over communicating with the testicles to maintain volume and adequate testosterone production. In the case of HPTA-function and optimized testosterone production, it is due to 2 primary negative feed-back loops. The pituitary and hypothalamus part of the HPTA still sense no reason to produce gonadotropins and restore normal LH/FSH production. In males, HCG has been shown to mimic LH thus administration results in direct stimulation of the testes resulting in minimal increases in sperm production and significant increases in testicular testosterone production. 11. HCG will be run through the entire thing at standard 500iu weekly. Go off HCG, it will keep you shut down, you've been on a month, that's enough. display: none !important; True TRT should shut down someones HPTA and create a negative feedback environment permanently, correct? This list is not all-inclusive, since there are similar medications sometimes used by specialists depending on their experience with the drug and their goals for the patient. similarities between behaviorism and social cognitive theory; green mountain tactical website; nombres que combinen con giovanni; shrewsbury middle school lunch menu; broom in mexican spanish; mark seiler nursing home; LH/FSH levels will have to rise as well as testosterone levels to a certain amount before you can discontinue. Are Viagra & Cialis Unfair Advantages Or Divine Blessings? Charity; FMCG; Media This was due to the structural similarities the two compounds possessed. It is likely the least androgenic in nature of all the anabolic/androgenic compounds, often to the point of interfering with libido. Sorry I misunderstood. I'm 6'2". I found it surprising while doing AAS research there is little to NO data on return of HPTA function after stopping AAS of any type. Action/Reaction And Things That Go Hump More In the Night. it was DeeCee that didn't agree. Its important to improve topical Testosterone absorption so that you have the best experience and to avoid habits that decrease absorption. If you really want to increase your natural testosterone, it will be done through diet and exercise. It also has the ability make more thyroid hormones and other fat burning substances than you could ever reasonably want (never met a reasonable bodybuilder but I did hear of one once). Most have realized notable HPTA recovery and/or androgen production stimulation form administering 1000iu HCG 3 times weekly for 21 days post-cycle. 1986 Oct;25(4):593-600. Coming into this cycle and having no experience with AAS aside from observations of a few good friends cycles, heavy and mild, long and short length, and a few message boards I followed for a few years back in my early and mid 20s I was quite hardline with the thought of 1 cycle, standard or close to it length, standard PCT - punch in punch out.